Tuesday, October 14, 2008

I'm Sorry...

...that I was so long winded on my post. Some of you missed my point. If I could go back in time, my post would have simply said this:

On Jun 11, Mario opened an Upper Deck supplied box of SpX.

On Aug 16, Mario opened an Upper Deck supplied box of Goudey.

On Sep 19, Mario stated that he had never received free product from Upper Deck.

On Oct 11, Mario said that he would receive the first free box soon.

Why? What is there to hide?


This is what the post should have looked like. Then, maybe so many people wouldn't have got tripped up and mistook me for saying something that I'm not. And maybe some of you are right and I should have emailed him. I'm not to big to admit that.

But, why am I alone on this? You were lied to! Do you not care? I'm sorry but I do care.

I don't care about the sponsorship, whether he'll be bias, or the damned hair card.

I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH the fact that he lied on Sep 19 and that he willfully did not mention that UD had supplied the three boxes until someone put it all together? That I have a problem with.

You can get caught up in the lingo of saying that this wasn't samples to bust and I'll buy that. But it was still from UD and it was still opened and reviewed. Therefore, free samples were received from UD by Mario. Why did he have to omit it and then lie about it?

As far as Mario's rebuttal post, The Last Straw, he still has not answered this question. Instead, he sent his readers, and by default some of my readers, down a rabbit hole talking about the "Hair Card". I couldn't care less about the hair card. IN MY POST I said that if Mario says he bought it then I believe him.

But now, the readers of Wax Heaven have decided I'm a "prick" because I'm accusing him of lying about the Hair Card. If you think that, then let me correct you.


If you're mad about the fact that it's pointed out, I'm sorry. I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Dave, if you feel like this is a personal "attack" on Mario, I do not know what to tell you. I didn't expect you, Gellman or ANYONE else....to agree. I wasn't looking for acceptance or justification. I wasn't looking to hurt Mario's reputation and I'm still not.

But, it's right there in Goddamned black and white...on HIS BLOG!! ALL I DID WAS QUOTE HIM!!!

I don't know why he did it and I'm not about to speculate. But, I for one, feel deceived by this.

All I know to do is to quote the words of Mario Alejandro and let you be the judge. That's what I've accomplished with my post.

If you don't mind being lied to, that's your business. I cannot help you on this one.


Dave said...

JV - you're factually correct about what you're saying. I just can't figure out what you're trying to accomplish. Are you trying to shame Mario into a public admission that he lied? If you are, then why? Mario may not be perfect, but none of us are. He must have had his reasons for concealing the fact that Upper Deck sent those boxes. Why are you pushing forward with this?

White Sox Cards said...

You have nothing to really be sorry about. You reported direct quotes. This illustrates your point exactly.

Some may view this as a personal attack, but I don't see it as an attack or as being personal. You are trying to find answers to questions that have been on your mind. There is nothing wrong about that. I agree with other readers that you probably should have asked Mario directly about these questions first and given him time to respond properly.

Mario has been up front in any question I have ever posed to him. I agree that this issue has escaladed because of the placed importance on it. You have every right to question what other people in this community do, just as the other people in this community have a right to make their own decisions regarding their own blog.

That being said, I personally have no preference about this issue. As I have blogged about before, the only issue I have is with content. If the quality of the content is compromised, then I have a problem. If the only thing that has changed is some more product, so be it.

If I ever do something on my blog that makes you question something, I would hope that you would ask me about it, so I could clarify whatever it would be.

jv said...

WHY? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Mario is the #1 blogger on the planet!! NOBODY IS MORE READ. NOBODY IS BETTER.


Mario is coming on as Upper Deck's official spokesperson for the next generation of collecting.

What we are doing as bloggers is more effective than what ANYONE else in the hobby is doing at this point.

The #1 Guy comes out of the gate lying immediately?!? Isn't this what we're used to from Beckett, the Card Companies, etc already? Aren't there enough grievances in the world of collecting already?

You yourself pointed out a book that I've never heard of that details how unscrupulous UD has been throughout history.

And now, Mario Alejandro, is their official spokesperson. The guy who's voice is read by countless 1,000's of people today, people that lean on him for advice and guidance in their collecting habits.

And he starts off lying about it immediately.

How in the absolute hell of it am I the only person that sees the writing on the wall with this.


Man...I'm exhausted...

I just want an explanation. For the love of God, Mario, come on here and give me a good reason so this shit can die.

Otherwise, I swear to God I'm changing the fucking title to "Wax Hell...brought to you by Wario Alejandro.

You people create blogs to show everyone why you hate Beckett for lying.

You people create blogs to show everyone why you hate the Card Companies for lying.

I'll create a blog to show everyone why I hate Wax Heaven for lying.

Gellman, THE OFFICIAL VOICE AGAINST BECKETT has stated in so many words that he doesn't necessarily want them to go away. He just wants their honesty.

We've always gotten that from Mario. Why does it have to stop now that he's UD's guy?

jv said...

Steve, you can absolutely guarantee that I will never do this again.

If Mario doesn't have an answer then I'm probably out of this circle anyway.

I'm quickly losing my patience for being mislead and lied to in the hobby.

All other factions of the hobby are already doing it to us and I expect more from Mario.

If he's compromised already, I don't know who to believe anymore.

--David said...

I don't think you're alone. I am assuming it is the principle of the thing that is motivating you.

I think there are others who agree with your analysis and accusation, but who are holding comment and "judgement" (if anyone wants to call it that) privately.

I also think there are people who don't see things with the same eyes you do.

I guess I kinda fall in the same confused state as Dave - what is your motivation?

If it is to simply inform folks of the order of events, then you've definitely got that covered. :-)

If you are trying to get Mario to admit to lying, I don't think you can. I say that because I don't think HE think he lied. After all, those boxes were gifts with no specification of review. Yes, many professionals get things with the 'implication' of review, but I don't think Mario sees those boxes falling into that category. Even if you do think they should, ultimately, Mario is the only one that can make that call for Mario, if that makes sense.

For me, I think it does look a little "close," but I can see both sides of the coin in that I think you've both got valid arguments as to why or why not it was or was not lying.... (Wow, how PC was THAT!? Yeesh)...

Anyway, I did want to say that I admire your tenacity and persistance of standing up for your principles.

jv said...

My first comment was to Dave if that wasn't clear. Sorry...

David, that's all I'm asking for is an explanation. I'll go away once I get one.

I don't care if everyone disagrees. That's fine. But, you have to at least see my point. This is exactly what we've been experiencing with all of the other "heads of the hobby" for years.

Without an explanation, Mario is just going to be one of "them".

--David said...

Well, I wrote my previous response before JV's responses to Dave and Steve...

I now have a much better understanding as to WHY you (JV) are so adamant about getting an explanation. I'm not sure creating a "Wax Hell" is the way to go, but that's the beauty of living where we do: the freedom to express ourselves!

I agree with Steve - you have nothing to be sorry about, and I think some of the reasons and explantions that you have made in the comments section might have served better had they been part of the original post. I guess in a way they were in there, but not as spelled out as they are in the above comments.

Hopefully, if Mario comes back to read this post, he'll have a better grasp of your stance and provide his viewpoint on the matter.

I think, though, you will only get answers if you email him directly. Even now, I think he would be willing to discuss this privately with you, especially if you include how hurt you are by the indiscretions that you see...

jv said...


drum roll please...

I'm no longer a member of what has now been dubbed the Heavenly 7 on WaxHeaven...

Fair enough.

Congratulations to Box Busters! Well deserved. Trust me, your hits will now go up.

See, at least somebody won on this deal.


Oh, and the comments are no longer allowed on Mario's "364 Days" post.

I guess I'll never get that answer I was looking for.

And you know why? Because it was a calculated lie to begin with and Mario knows it.

Tatiana said...

JV, I answered your questions. I apologize if that is not good enough. It is what it is.

I could continue, but I have a family to concentrate on. Mario and I are finished going over this subject.

There is no issue. Move on.

Now please, respectfully, leave it alone.

Lars said...

I do find it somewhat odd that Mario refuses to comment on this blog, but his wife has several times.

gritz76 said...

Dude, chill out. It's not a conspiracy, it's baseball cards. The reason I tune in to the blogs and write my own, is the community that has been created, right now it's not even fun to log on. Yeah maybe he lied. That doesn't make him a liar. Besides, I've been lied to about way worse things than where some baseball cards came from, and I wasn't nearly as angry as you seem. If you really base what you buy by what Mario says, you should try and form your own opinion. I know you have them and usually I enjoy reading them, but you really should concentrate on your own treasures and not so much about what Mario is up to. This whole situation has made Treasures and Wax Heaven look petty and ugly and I for one can't wait for it to stop.

jv said...

I know, Lars, what is that all about? Tatiana REFUSES to quit posting "answers" to questions that nobody is asking her.

Mario's first act as President Blogger is to lie....and then have his press secretary clean it all up.

And, Gritz, I'm sorry, but man you're missing the point.

It has literally nothing to do with where the cards came from or even that he never disclosed it when he was posting reviews of the products.

It's when, on September 19, he stated that he had never received product from a card company. Why would you even have to lie about that?

I can only speculate that there is an ulterior motive and if so and he can't explain then it goes to show you that there is some aspect of his relationship with Upper Deck that already has him lying about stuff.


Where’s the popcorn at?

The only way for any card blogger to do a non-bias review would be to receive product from all card manufactures. You cannot help but to have a little loyalty and bias towards one company when they are hooking you up with free stuff.

I am sure as large at UD is they have Mario under a contract which means he legally couldn’t say anything, and he still can't.

JV- Love the passion. There is a saying that goes "you can't see the forest for all of the trees". You have made your point very clear, I understand it. But, to keep commenting on it diminishes its value.

Please take your passion and come up with some good ideas for the manufactures so they will stop pumping out expensive shiny shit in a box.

TheRedemptionMan @ groupbreakers.com

jv said...

To anonymous that recently left the comment - I accidentally rejected it's moderation. Please resubmit your comment and I will approve it. Thanks.

jv said...

anonymous said:

Sounds like Mario's wife wears the pants in that family.

I enjoy both blogs, but it is kind of "fishy" what Mario says and then does......

Anonymous said...

I guess the sponsorship deal isn't an issue for me. Its just shades of gray. I believe I can read a review and tell when someone is dressing up a pig. (Not a political reference, I'm Canadian.)

Not being honest about where the boxes came from - that's a bigger issue. Mostly because if one is going to say "You can trust me, based on my past record" - that past record had better be spotless. And one lie there is going to cast a pall over anything that gets said in the future.

I understand your motivation - honestly, I would have never gone through and re-read all the posts on Wax Heaven to find these inconsistent statements myself, so you have taken the initiative and informed the hobby about something that doesn't line up. Could it have been done privately? Of course. Would I (and anyone else who reads the blog) know about it then? Likely not.

For all the drama (I don't mean that negatively, its just the best word that fits), this is just doing what other bloggers have done in the past. Dig around, find something that doesn't fit, and then tell people about it.

And to groupbreakers - the only way to give an unbiased review is to spend your own money on a box you bought off the shelf. I don't think I've ever had a bad 'free' anything. Free lunch? Sweet. Free lunch if you sit through a meeting? Sweet. The fact that the risk element has been removed makes free boxes difficult to review. You can look at an SPx box and comment on the design of the base cards, and the awesome use of foil, instead of thinking "I got $5 worth of cards out of a box I spent $150(?) on."

Anonymous said...

This is truly absurd given the amazingly low stakes involved. Any of your time spent investigating his posts is better spent on almost anything else. He got free boxes, more power to him. It is laughable to make into a Baseball Cardgate.

But amusing to watch, nonetheless. I do have to admit that.

PunkRockPaint said...